9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

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SpeedRebirth
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9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by SpeedRebirth »

As the engine builders start to go more and more hardcore, more features is required from the tuning software. And the latest request from one of the most knowledgeable builders in the us (SPEED6 KILLAH) is that the software tables needs to be extended, this time regarding RPM.

As people start putting new custom camshafts in their engines, it enables the engine to rev much higher than it was intended for.
I see more and more peps getting tired of the quality of the handheld AP unit that most use. Comments like "Cobb really needs to step up the pace" leads me to belive that Versatune has a golden opportunity here to "steal" some of the AP users for something with more features... Versatuner! AP only supports RPM up to 7k...

Steve @ VersaTune i think you should implement this as a one of the new features in the upcoming version. If you need testers there might be a few over at MSF that would be interested.
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mituc
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by mituc »

The AP supports only 7k rpm and load 2. Once you're past that you'll be actually using the values either from 7k rpm or load 2.0.

Now, versatuner goes up to load 4 and 8k rpm. I know of only one mazdaspeed (gen1) which was revving up to 8250rpm but it got off the grid at least 4 years ago (not sure what happened). Since then even with upgraded camshafts, pistons and rods I've never seen any 2.3 DISI T revving higher than 7.5k rpm since that one.

Those tables are easy to extend, it's more difficult to make all that data fit into the ECU memory with a map. Personally I'd like to wait until 8k rpm will not be enough anymore and in the meanwhile focus on the other things such as injector control, boost control, and some other useful features requested around here.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
SpeedRebirth
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by SpeedRebirth »

Even though most of us will not need to rev to 8k or past that, it should still be AVAILABLE for those who would like to test it out. Especially if its easy to implement!

Take a look at this guy for example (fast forward to 1min 45sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo3MhCba8jc

He shifts at about 7k RPM and the revs go up to about 8k before gear is engaged (probably flat foot shifting).
The higher you are able to rev, the bigger turbo you could fit and actually be able to spool it (turbos like GT40).
You said that you havent seen anyone rev over 7.5k the last few year, well it does make sense since most of the high HP guys in US are using AP for tuning. Might have been different if they could utilize the higher RPM.

They are always trying to push the platform further to make more power. And by now it will be hard to get much further without higher revving engines. I read a comment somewhere where a builder said that they were working on MS6 with 600-800 whp (probably requires standalone ECU management due to VT/AP limitations). Would be cool to see VT in the specs there :)
MS6 -06 VT Atmosphere Turbo GTX3076
EWG-Catless DP-3,25" MAF-HDI FMIC-
JBR: RMM-PMM-TMM-SS Kit S2-TIG Throttle-EGR Delete-OCC S2
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mituc
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by mituc »

Probably that guy's rev limit is set somewhere at 7200rpm. That would be 7550rpm on the RPM gauge in the dash. For a 8k rpm limit there are not enough markings on the rpm gauge in the dash (8400rpm) :)

Later edit:
micabluems3boi 3 months ago

On this video FFS wasn't working at the time, so I was flat foot shifting off my 7200 rev limiter.
So 7200 :)
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
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Steve @ VersaTune
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by Steve @ VersaTune »

Like mituc stated, the ECU uses the last cell in the table when the lookup value is greater than the highest axis value.

How much different is the tuning at 8k vs 8.5k? How many people are going over 8 or 8.5k?
SpeedRebirth
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by SpeedRebirth »

Its going to be more and more common to rev like crazy, just takes some time to get there. Two three years ago people whould only dream of getting this amount of power out of their engine like we are today, and we're doing it pretty safely.

Im not a tuner so i dont know how much different it would be at those rpm's. Alot of things come into play here, timing, VVT, load/boost target, AFR target ect ect.
Question, does the ECU even support cells above the standard 7k? If it does, then its an easy fix like mituc said. So why not? :)

"For a 8k rpm limit there are not enough markings on the rpm gauge in the dash (8400rpm) "
What the dash markings is limited to doesnt matter. Just watched a youtube clip where an evo 9 guy reved to 11k, red markings starting at 7k and stops at 9k...

Yet again, if its possible, why not? :)
MS6 -06 VT Atmosphere Turbo GTX3076
EWG-Catless DP-3,25" MAF-HDI FMIC-
JBR: RMM-PMM-TMM-SS Kit S2-TIG Throttle-EGR Delete-OCC S2
SPC Joints Whiteline Rear Swaybar CP-E RDM Turbosmart BPV Autotech HPFP SURE Juggernaught Guardian Angel+Boost Dial
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Steve @ VersaTune
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by Steve @ VersaTune »

Just remember that every change we make has to be replicated to every platform in every market and tested. It would not be that difficult to extend the already extended tables from 8000 to 9000 once. It's a bit more work to do it for every platform and market.

Yes, the ECU can handle table axes greater than 7k, as evidenced by the current VersaTuner for Gen1 MZR DISI which has select tables with extended load and rpm. I have seen a lot of checks against 8000 RPM in the ECU. It would need to be thoroughly tested before it was rolled out to everyone.

I'm not saying that we don't want to do it. I'm just saying that it takes a lot of time and effort implement and thoroughly test a change like this.
Enki
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by Enki »

Bump for hardcore nutjob. My engine will be getting built in the next month or so, and while it will probably be another after that before I'm on the road again, it's coming.

Anything holding us back on this currently or is it just time and testing?
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Steve @ VersaTune
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Re: 9k RPM needed for hardcore nutjobs

Post by Steve @ VersaTune »

There is no technical limit. It's just a huge effort to redo for all of the platforms and regions.
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