Not hitting load targets

Discussion of tuning specific to MAZDASPEED3/MAZDASPEED Axela/Mazda 3 MPS vehicles
Dolfius
Posts: 64
Joined: May 31st, 2017, 2:54 am

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by Dolfius »

mituc wrote:I just hope the VT guys will fix this, must be some table or value which was not exposed yet and that these newer gen1 ECUs have (or maybe they all do but it's used in some specific situations).
This is pretty much what I've been thinking is the issue for some time now.
Polish_Eagle
Posts: 21
Joined: December 3rd, 2014, 2:33 am

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by Polish_Eagle »

This might not affect you but on my GEN2 I wasn't hitting my targeted loads and it was quite far off. So I logged my Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) and noticed I only ever hit 66%, even though the pedal is right to the floor and my relative throttle position was 75%. After noticing this, I logged the APP PID and looked at my tune to see the car was indeed limited by the APP load targeting table.

To resolve the issue on GEN2's, we space the accelerator pedal from the firewall with washers or cut a nub on the pedal that limits travel. After doing this change the pedal can now travel to ~85% and I finally hit the load that I want. You can also technically set the row that corresponds to your max APP to have the load you desire. I personally chose to fix the operating range of the pedal so I don't lose resolution in the tune.
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1324
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by mituc »

That's another issue and the gen1s don't have it.
Instead of adding spacers you can also request 80% TPS at 66% APP.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
JohnnyT
Posts: 21
Joined: July 6th, 2017, 4:18 pm

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by JohnnyT »

I seem to be having a similar issue. I just got my car rebuilt and am working on mafcal/basetune. 2007 Speed3 Sport. I am requestion 2.2 load across the board and can't seem to hit it.

Image

I checked and all my tables are correct "set higher so it defaults to load by gear"

It does start to creep up at the very end but I am not sure if that is a flow or tune thing at this point. WGDC is set to 0 with a correction of +20 and you can see in the log it never even tried adding wgdc to hit the requested load. I will inlcude my tune file and log if someone can take a look. Maybe I am just missing something but I checked it over multiple times. I know my maf still needs some fattening up but I would love to be hitting my targets and tapering correctly. Thanks

LOG - http://www.sharecsv.com/s/58c65f9d089c6 ... %20wot.csv

Image
Attachments
5862 BaseTune + MafCal v1.04.vtune
(145.25 KiB) Downloaded 337 times
VersaTuned - 07 Mazdaspeed3 - CPE Stg2 Pistons, Manley HBeams,Kozmic DP, CNT CatBack, PTE 5862 JB Turbo, DTP Fab Dump, CPE PTE Ex Mani, JMF PI IM, CS 3.5Bar, MAC EBCS, HTP 4" Intake, Trubo XS FMIC
Dolfius
Posts: 64
Joined: May 31st, 2017, 2:54 am

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by Dolfius »

@JohnnyT load is a calculated result using, among many other things, your air flow. If your MAF is not on point, your load values will be off too.

Unless you have the same trouble I'm having, apart from being unable to achieve load targets - no matter how much I increase the MAF values by, it will always run much leaner than the AFR targets set. And I've noticed, the more WGDC is added, the leaner it goes.

I believe the guys from VT are looking into this.
JohnnyT
Posts: 21
Joined: July 6th, 2017, 4:18 pm

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by JohnnyT »

I did just adjust the maf values and they have only cleaned up a little. I am targeting 11.75 and I feel like my mafcal is pretty rich already so maybe I have been having the same issue and not noticed. This was only my 3rd revision but I felt like I should be closer to target. On revision one I added 10% to most of it which seemed excessive but this is a new setup so I thought maybe that was ok. Blarghhh , hope they get this figured out. I don't want to be doing mafcals and wot pulls that are not safe.
VersaTuned - 07 Mazdaspeed3 - CPE Stg2 Pistons, Manley HBeams,Kozmic DP, CNT CatBack, PTE 5862 JB Turbo, DTP Fab Dump, CPE PTE Ex Mani, JMF PI IM, CS 3.5Bar, MAC EBCS, HTP 4" Intake, Trubo XS FMIC
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1324
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by mituc »

Add to your logs both actual and desired AFR. This way you will be able to see the actual deviation and not just guess it. The actual AFR may be a result of the desired AFR based on various issues, so without logging the desired you will never know where the deviation comes from and you will just assume that your MAF cal is off.

AFRs of 12+ at WOT are perfectly fine if you spray quite a lot of meth. If you're on pump gas - not so goot, even at those 1.6-ish loads.

Also, in your tune the BCS DC Base table is zeroed totally. Even though the increase limit is at 20% you have the BCS DC load target correction tables zeroed as well. So there's no way you hit more load than whatever you make at spring rate. So this is your load cap problem.

What EBCS do you have? I can help you filling those tables with some very mild values to see how it goes.
Also the MAF cal you have is pretty bad. There's absolutely no way you have 0 g/s of air up to 0.9V. Also if you switch the visualization mode on you will see so many bumps and potholes on that curve that if you were to drive a car on that tarmac you will rattle the wheels off even with a Baja truck.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
JohnnyT
Posts: 21
Joined: July 6th, 2017, 4:18 pm

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by JohnnyT »

I know 12+ is not great as I am in the process of dialing it in but I have already added a decent amount of fuel and I am just doing a 93 pump tune right now. I know the BCS DC is set to 0 as that is where I wanted it to see spring pressure BUT correction is set to 20 so shouldn't it be adjusting +20 to at least try and hit load targets? I had BCS DC set to 0 as I wanted the correction to come from BCS DC adjustment Limit Increase. Does it not work that way? I have a 3 port MAC valve just the standard EBCS. I grabbed the inital mafcal from the mazdaspeed forum and there was a reason Lex set the voltages to 0 for larger intakes up to that point. I have a 4" HTP intake. I would love some help cleaning it up. Can you PM me so we don't flood this thread if my issue is not related?

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f ... ost1669802

I thought desired AFR was what I told it, not whatever that field "desired afr" is showing. Before I would set AFR to 11.75 which is what I was requesting and then calculate Actual from my 11.75 to get maf changes. Thanks for the help.
VersaTuned - 07 Mazdaspeed3 - CPE Stg2 Pistons, Manley HBeams,Kozmic DP, CNT CatBack, PTE 5862 JB Turbo, DTP Fab Dump, CPE PTE Ex Mani, JMF PI IM, CS 3.5Bar, MAC EBCS, HTP 4" Intake, Trubo XS FMIC
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1324
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by mituc »

JohnnyT wrote:BUT correction is set to 20 so shouldn't it be adjusting +20 to at least try and hit load targets? I had BCS DC set to 0 as I wanted the correction to come from BCS DC adjustment Limit Increase. Does it not work that way?
If would if you didn't zero the tables which handle the actual correction/compensation...
JohnnyT wrote: I grabbed the inital mafcal from the mazdaspeed forum and there was a reason Lex set the voltages to 0 for larger intakes up to that point.
I know I'm going to question what a reputable tuner did but he either did not do it right or the excel sheet he pasted that from rounded those values down to 0. Several MAF cals from that thread have this issue.
JohnnyT wrote: I have a 4" HTP intake. I would love some help cleaning it up. Can you PM me so we don't flood this thread if my issue is not related?
JohnnyT wrote: I thought desired AFR was what I told it, not whatever that field "desired afr" is showing. Before I would set AFR to 11.75 which is what I was requesting and then calculate Actual from my 11.75 to get maf changes. Thanks for the help.
The desired AFR may deviate from whatever you told it to be for various reasons: heat (BAT, ECT), fuelling correction, stability system, and several other things. Same happens with the WGDC and spark ignition.

I will PM you with some information so avoid spamming this thread...
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
Dolfius
Posts: 64
Joined: May 31st, 2017, 2:54 am

Re: Not hitting load targets

Post by Dolfius »

mituc wrote:There's absolutely no way you have 0 g/s of air up to 0.9V.
Every time I have any value over 0 under the 0.9V mark, I get a Crankshaft Position Sensor CEL. Without fail.
Post Reply