Few questions on what's next

[randylawl]

Hello all,

I recently bought my versatuner for 07 ms6. Steve was kind enough to meet up with me instead of shipping the cable, thank you for that.

Mods are just a no-name aftermarket SRI that came on the car, stock TIP (I just bought a used CS TIP online so it will be here before long) and upgraded rear diff mount. When I bought the car I replaced plugs with one step colder, stretched coil pack springs, and replaced all fluids with what's recommended. Car has almost 147000 miles right now.

At this point I've calibrated the MAF curve within 2% and the car is running much better. For the log posted I hadn't gone long enough to establish any LTFT's so ignore those for now. I'm running the base 93 tune, I tried the high load tune and can verify on both tunes the fuel pressure never goes below 1600 at WOT.

First question, what should I do about the KR?
In this log I adjusted the timing in about nine cells around the 5000 rpm/1.5 load WOT area from stock down by 2 degrees, taking them all from around 10 to 8. This was because of a previous log the KR was like 5. Adjusting timing lowered the KR but it's still the same exact 'shape' and seems to get worse at higher gears. Its just weird to me its literally the same exact shape as before the timing change.

I haven't changed anything else, no load targets or anything, other than idle rpm a slight bump and adjusting maf curve. It does appear there's some sort of boost spike as the car first spools, but at this point until I learn more of the process for tuning and get rid of KR I'm hesitant to smooth out that issue.

Second question then is what steps I should take to refine the tune? I've got the MAF calibrated and now I'm sort of stumped on where to go other than fixing that KR. I feel like the car could make more power based on how the high load tune felt but maybe it isn't safe.

I really liked the high load tune, but am I okay running that on the stock car? Obviously I'm worried about knock which is why I put the base tune back, but the high load tune hit like 19psi which seems a lot for stock internals etc. Once I get more cash I'll upgrade hpfp definitely.

I appreciate any feedback, I'm waiting to start a new job soon and the last few days have been logs after logs

[mituc]

Hi Randy and welcome!

So as far as I can tell, if this is the stock tune you're running then the knock you're experiencing might be from either bad gas. Since you lowered the timing and you've got less knock after that it's usually an indication that it's not mechanical. Try finding better gas or if you have E85 stations in your area add abut a gallon of E85 before you fill up with gas.

This log doesn't have much useful data in it because there are too few relevant PIDs, but apart from that things look good.

One step colder spark plugs are not necessary until you exceed the 300 crank HP mark (or even a lot later, like 330 crank HP), but new spark plugs are always better.

If you will use the high load version of these OTS tunes it's better to have upgraded fuel pump internals, we've seen the fuel pump doing fine with the stock internals but we've also seen it struggle at the same boost/load values on different cars. But you need to sort out the fuel quality issue first.

Next time you take a WOT log load this logging preset (go to dashboard -> click the Presets arrow in the top-left -> import and then use this preset for logging).

[randylawl]

Here is a log using those PID's. The tune in the previous log and this log are both the 'base 93' tune in the software. I'm not sure if the stock tune was supposed to show up as flashable when I first installed but its not listed other than returning car to stock, but these logs all work off of the base 93 from the tune database.

I was at about 5/8 tank of gas and filled up with 93 from a mobil station near my house. It looks like the KR has gone down once again but it's still present even with that timing that I reduced initially. Perhaps I need to drive some more to mix up the tank. I'll try and find some e85 nearby and put a gallon in. I noticed I was hitting much higher loads, probably because its a bit cooler today.

New logs attached

[mituc]

Hi Randy,

Well, the logs say a lot more now.
Try to flash the 91OCT tune and see how the KR changes. It's possible that you have some bad gas around there which they sell as 93OCT since nobody will notice.

[randylawl]

It definitely would appear that I may have some bad fuel, on these logs it looks like WOT KR has gone down but not entirely away. This is on the 91 octane tune with the maf calibrated. Could this be from a stock rear motor mount? I've heard shitty motor mounts can cause false knock but haven't had a chance to replace any yet.

[mituc]

Motor mounts can cause false knock as well as stiff suspension or suspension parts. By example if I go over a small bump during a WOT pull I can see KR there. By example here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIL4h5Mw5oM#!t=1m0s that lip in the asphalt triggered a KR of 1.41.

Back to your logs.
So when you post log try to cut them and only post those relevant 50-60 lines. Posting an 1500+, 4500+ and a 7000+ lines logs without giving any point of reference where the relevant stuff is will only result in you being ignored. People are willing to help but are not willing to waste 30 minutes searching through your stuff. ...Not to say that the 1500+| and the7000+ lines logs only have only a dozen of semi-pulls ending below or around 4k rpm, no full pull.

So the logs have the air flow in lb/min, and converting that to g/s results in about 220-226g/s tops above 5200-5500rpm even though the WGDC is close to 100%.

My guess is that you currently have a leak which may be masked by the factory or the OTS tunes which keep the fuel trims working for longer. So I'd check for that at this point, as well as for lose things in the engine bay.

[randylawl]

My apologies on the logs, I foolishly did not realize csv couldn't be reopened by versatuner and didn't realize how long they were ending up. I'll clean up all future logs to remove the extra bits. Thank you for taking the time to look at them. I will find better places to do more full runs as well.

I'm getting a cs tip next week in the mail so while I'm at it I'll check all the boost tubes and everything and see if there's anything leaking.

[randylawl]

Today I took my IC off to check everything. It looked like my tube connecting the maf housing to the TIP was not fully seated and most likely cause of a leak. I also tightened the clamp on the TIP to turbo as much as I reasonably could. All the boost tubes looked good, intercooler is okay. Reinstalled everything nice and tight and it looks like it helped. Still running 91 base tune with maf calibrated.

In the posted logs I did one run up to 6500 (first gear, 6000 second gear) and the other two logs up to 6000. The first log hit 0.35 KR viewed in versatune, this is so little I'm not really concerned with it.

The second log started with some KR from part throttle but was gone at WOT for the rest of the log. Good there.

Third log, once again similar KR to before I reassembled, same trend pretty much. 0.35 around 3600, goes away until 4600-5000 at 0.70, goes back down to 0.35 5100-5400, then goes up to 1.41 until the KR max rpm which I've left stock set at 5750.

While this isn't much KR it's still a little unsettling. I noticed two things while the car was apart.

1. The coolant tube on the block situated just above the large metal coolant stem that goes to the upper radiator tube, this little tube has been cut and plugged with a bolt. I can't find much on where the other end of this is supposed to go but the tubes for the throttle body heating are still in stock arrangement and the car doesn't appear to overheat at all or use coolant. I need to research coolant routing more.

2. The aftermarket SRI that replaced the factory intake is an off-brand piece, that I will be replacing as soon as possible. The housing for the MAF looks to have a tube inside of another tube spot welded together and I'm inclined to thing the minuscule space between these two tubes might reach the entire length of the housing and allow air around the MAF sensor.

I also added almost a quart of oil and I'm hoping it wasn't too low.

Data log - 2016-10-22 19.03.10 - Sheet1.csv

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Data log - 2016-10-22 19.04.54 - Sheet2.csv

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Data log - 2016-10-22 19.13.31 - Sheet3.csv

(11.49 KiB) Downloaded 779 times

[mituc]

Knock is definitely under control here. There's nothing to worry about knock retard under 1 or even equal to 1 at WOT. At 1.4 consistent wich every run you need to start worrying and address it, at 2 or above you need to stop doing whatever is making the car go into that situation. So you're good.

The turbo is working pretty hard though, let's see how things change after you replace the current intake with a CS. An upgraded top mount intercooler would help quite a lot as well.

Two things that you've mentioned are worrisome:
1. the fact that a coolant tube is capped - you need to start monitoring the ECTs, you should add them to your list of PIDs. If the ECT goes above 225-230F during normal driving in this relatively cool weather it means that only the short circuit is active;
2. the addition of almost a quart of oil - when did you changed the oil last time, how much did you put in and what oil exactly (brand, type and viscosity)? Between min and max you have about 800ml, but less than a quart (which is about 950ml). So I take it the oil was below min which is not good.

[randylawl]

Logged the ECT today and it didn't go above 214 and that was while idling. Next weekend I'm gonna pull off the intake again to look at coolant lines, I've got the tubes listed on parts websites matched to a picture of the aftermarket silicone kit online and once I figure out which tubes have been swapped around or what I'm missing then I'll order what I need to get it right. And start saving up for the kit to replace them all lol.

When I bought the car it was very low on oil, like two quarts down. I immediately replaced all oil and filter using rotella t6 5w-40. The other day when it was low it was just at the end of the dipstick so I probably did add about 800ml. It's been three months since I got the car and changed the oil, 3000 miles just about, and I don't think I've had to add any yet but its been about a month since I checked it last, with very little driving since I've been out of work.

I've always heard what sounds like a very, very faint knocking sound at idle, not loud like the usual spun bearing sound and not every rotation. It's about as loud as the injectors which makes it very hard to discern from anything else. I've heard the dual mass flywheels are loud and it may be that, but my spidey sense tells me its coming from inside the engine. I hope to heck its not a spun bearing. I could be hallucinating the sound as something bad that isn't, my roommate couldn't tell what I was talking about.

Out of curiosity I threw the 93 base tune w/maf cal back on today, logged once and had no knock at WOT. Then I put the 93 high load tune on and it showed KR up to 5 in the higher rpms just like before. I'll put it back on the 93 base tomorrow, it ran great on that.

In a couple weeks when I start getting paychecks again I'm thinking about a better TMIC or even the cx FMIC