HPFP Internals and intake

Discussion of tuning specific to MAZDASPEED6/MAZDASPEED Atenza/Mazda 6 MPS vehicles

Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mteogr » June 1st, 2018, 10:33 pm

I used Motul eco-nergy 5w30 which is A5/B5.
I think the mazda original oil dexelia is also A5/B5.
Now I use the new Motul eco-lite . It isn't for diesel but for gasoline. Motul says:

100% Synthetic Fuel Economy engine oil specially formulated for recent gasoline engines, naturally aspirated or turbocharged, indirect or direct injection, designed to use engine oil with low friction and low HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity (≥ 2.9 mPa.s).
Suitable for modern gasoline engines requiring a viscosity grade 30 and fuel economy lubricant (API SN and/or ILSAC GF-5 standards).
Approved GM-dexos1™ GEN2 for all new GM gasoline engines requiring this approval: BUICK, CADILLAC, CHEVROLET, GM, GMC, OPEL and VAUXHALL.
 
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mituc » June 2nd, 2018, 2:20 am

It has to be A3/B4, 40 hot weight (so 5w40 or 0w40 in the winter if you want). Anything else is NOT suitable for these engines.

It's funny that with a smoky turbo you're still debating what I'm saying, even though it's not my personal recommendation to use 5w40, but Mazda's :)
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mteogr » June 2nd, 2018, 6:40 am

I have read that is recommended from mazda if you have a smoky turbo. I dont argue with you but I want to decide which step I have to make first. Just switch to 5w40 and set the idle to factory's numbers or install the oil catch can and see what happens.
I check my engine oil for consumption very often and I really don't see anything weird.
I change oil every 5.000 km and I don't need to fill in extra lubricant.
 
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mituc » June 2nd, 2018, 7:42 pm

mteogr wrote:I have read that is recommended from mazda if you have a smoky turbo.


...and you have a smoky turbo.

Also, not sure where you read, possibly on some forum which is ok-ish but that doesn't necessarily mean you know all the story which lets you some leverage in interpretating or changing the context, possibly misleading other people who read.

If I remember correctly when they issued that memo for the service network across Europe they recommended 5w40 in general because people were running out of oil with the 15k kms/9k miles service intervals and bumper to bumper city traffic. In the same memo they recommended checking the spark plug gap and changing it down to 0.7mm if it's otherwise, as the initial service manuals were with either 1.1mm or 0.8mm. Prior to that, indeed, they recommended changing to 5w40 only for those cars who had smoking issues.

I'm not forcing you to change your oil to a thicker viscosity. I'm only telling you some facts proved by both the mazda service memos and the people (at the dealer or independent mechanics) who came to repair these engines after they failed 400% bone stock, not raced, not spiritedly driven or anything.

So if you care then stop running 30 hot weight viscosity oils in your car or oils which are for small or de-tuned normally aspirated petrol engines (all the A5/B5 or C3 oils).

You also need to understand that the engine oils sold by the dealers lately are focused on fuel economy and emissions, not necessarily the best engine lubrication. So they will not put A3 oils in your car, only A5 or C3. So that with "the dealer told me/did/has" has nothing to do with discussions about engine performance, unless the only performance you're after is fuel economy or some senseless local top with users who did the highest amount of miles/kms between two consecutive fuellings.
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mteogr » June 3rd, 2018, 3:25 am

Ok. I understand.
I use to see what the service book was reccomend because I thought that was better for my engine. I dont care for fuel save but for protection. I saw in the manual that I can choose between 5w30 a3/a5 or 10/40 a3 . Then I checked the dexelia 5w30 label and I saw that is a5/b5 so I make the wrong conclusion that is better for us.
Now I read about acea explanation and I can understand more things.
So, what do you use now?
You said that ester based are better but is that for daily use?
I saw motul sport 5w40 which is ester but it is API SM.
Also Motul x-cess 5w40 is a3/b4.
 
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mituc » June 3rd, 2018, 5:29 am

mteogr wrote:You said that ester based are better but is that for daily use?
I saw motul sport 5w40 which is ester but it is API SM.
Also Motul x-cess 5w40 is a3/b4.


All the oils you've mentioned are good for your car, so this is the reason why what I'm going to write next may look like a mix of feelings about using this or that. You will have to decide based on how you use the car and I hope my recommendation at the end will help.

The Ester synthetic oils are perfectly fine for daily use. I used Motul ester Sport 5w40 (and 5w50) in the past and this is a good oil except for the fact that the detergent content is relatively low and so is the sulphated ash (0.8%, kind of a mid-SAPS oil). So it may require a 2.5-3k miles change interval because of that. If you're already changing the oil about as often (I do) then it's perfectly fine as long as the price works well for you.

Motul X-cess is very good for street use, is more of a street oriented oil compared to the Ester Sport which is race oriented but also works on street. The x-cess is not Ester synthetic though, but still a good oil.
This year I switched (again) from Motul Ester Sport 5w40 and 5w50 to RedLine 5w50, so in your car you could use RedLine 5w40 (the normal 5w40, NOT the euro formula which is ACEA C3). By the nickname I'd say you're in Greece but if you're in the US then RedLine may be a good option as it's around $10 a quart there, while where I live I pay about $25 for a quart (yeah, and I have 3 cars, 2-3 oil changes/year in two of them, 5/year in the 3MPS, my budget is screaming).

Also, no matter what oil you're using watch the oil consumption closely. It's not a problem if your engine uses a bit of oil, but if it uses oil because of the rings/valves and not because the turbo pours it into the exhaust keep in mind that the ester synthetic oils do not burn as clean as a fully synthetic oil and not even by far as clean as a semi-synthetic. Because of this the intake valves will get clogged a bit faster if you do not have additional port injection (meth or sequential PI), and the oil rings will clog faster than with a full or semi synthetic oil (in such situations valve and oil rings clogging will happen regardless, but it will happen faster with ester synthetics oils if you have an oil consumption problem).

The extra mechanical protection and lubrication you get from Ester Synthetic oils starts counting when the engine is running hot, is under extreme load or both (track days, drag strip). Their main argument over the fully synthetics is the lower shear at high temperatures and/or mechanical loads. Otherwise on normal street use (including spirited driving, isolated pulls) a fully synthetic will be just as good and will also be cheaper.

So considering that so far you were using an A5 oil with a slightly lower viscosity than what these engines would normally like I'd say go with the x-cess 5w40 (and do it as soon as you can, if you continue using the 5w30 you may loose the turbo - which is not necessarily a bad thing).
If the winters have negative temps where you live then during that time you can use the 0w40 they have, I think it's nergy or something, and I remember it's also A3/B4.
Also, no matter how many miles you put in your car, make sure you don't make it to the summer with the oil you used during the winter and the other way around. Oils wear differently during summer and winter. Usually people who put a small amount of miles/kms on their cars tend to be in this situation.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Build engine + WMI + GTX3071, ~476WHP @31-32PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine, intake and exhaust (YES!!), GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 320-ish BHP
VersaTuner guru
 
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mteogr » June 4th, 2018, 2:29 pm

With so many oil changes per year you have to buy a drum!!! I usually make 2-3 oil changes per year and at the moment I have only one car.
I changed my oil today with Motul x-cess 5w40.
I couldn't find Motul Sport and redline cost 18 euro per quart and it is not very easy to find it here in Greece. I do not drive my car in a track. I only do spirited driving and isolated pulls. I change my oil every 5.000 km so next time I will try Motul sport. I also saw Fuchs Titan Pro Race s which is ester.
I have only 23.000 km at the moment so I believe that If I have oil consumption it will be from the turbo.
Do you think that now I have to lower the idle in factory numbers?
 
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Re: HPFP Internals and intake

by mituc » June 7th, 2018, 5:13 pm

mteogr wrote:I do not drive my car in a track. I only do spirited driving and isolated pulls. I change my oil every 5.000 km so next time I will try Motul sport. I also saw Fuchs Titan Pro Race s which is ester.


In this case you should continue using a full synthetic oil such as the x-cess. I don't think that in this case going with an expensive ester synthetic worth the money.

mteogr wrote:I have only 23.000 km at the moment so I believe that If I have oil consumption it will be from the turbo.
Do you think that now I have to lower the idle in factory numbers?


Well, you never know with this oil consumption... but indeed most probably is the turbo. You will only be sure when you will pull the downpipe and inspect the turbine side of the turbo and eventually do a compression test. If the turbo is very bad you may see some oil around the compressor wheel as well.

For now I'd leave the idle RPM around 800. It works very well with my potentially smoking turbo on the CX7 (smoked bad only once when it sit in a detailing shop and was moved cold 5 meters a few times, but it is using a bit of oil). Also, 800RPM idle is not a big increase, it's between 50 and 150rpm over the factory idle RPM, so even if you sit in traffic a lot the fuel economy will be affected by this only marginally (think 0.5l/100 or so).
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Build engine + WMI + GTX3071, ~476WHP @31-32PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine, intake and exhaust (YES!!), GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 320-ish BHP
VersaTuner guru
 
Posts: 881
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
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