CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Discussion of tuning specific to CX-7 vehicles
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The Lost Speed
Posts: 5
Joined: April 1st, 2013, 11:26 am

CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by The Lost Speed »

Hello,

I want to found a way to change the load target tuning to boost dynamic tuning. I see in the table we have table for boost target and boost error compensation (the 2 are unused) but how to force the ECU to take only boost target value to manage the wastegate and not the load target

Best
CX-7 AWD 2.3T 2012 // CP-e HPF Pump //CP-e CAI // Samco TIH // Corksport TMIC // Custom 3'' Midpipe // Turbosmart dual port BOV //H&R coil drop // Sure RMM
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1324
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by mituc »

Although it's not something that is recommended, you can set the load targets to higher values that will never be achieved, or will be achieved only during winter, and play with the overboost protection limits (when the throttle close limits are hit the ECU will close the throttle and keep the boost under control). You will have to work the BCS DC table values up until you reach about the desired values, and lower the BCS DC compensation percent for negative compensation (default 20%, make it like 7%).
I still recommend leaving the load target corrections in place, at least for the positive compensation, just in case the car will run into a boost spike and the load will be too high.

Keep in mind that high boost means high air flow. That does not necessarily mean that the car will make proportionally more power. You can boost up to 19PSI at red line and run 3 degrees of advance and get a shitty power figure (and toast the exhaust valves in the process), or you can boost up to 16.5-17 and run 12-14 degrees of timing (depending on the gas you're running and a lot of other factors) and get significantly more power.

I would not do a pure boost tune on a stock turbo. maybe hybrid (as recommended above).

However, if you decide to boost tune make sure you have:
- fuel pump internals;
- exhaust;
- a larger turbo than stock, at least a reworked K04 of not even larger;
- good cooling (larger intercooler, good coolant, heat shields in good shape);
- good lubrication (better engine/trans/diff oil);
- better engine support (engine mounts, at least the RMM CS inserts).

To all I wrote above, my recommendation is to contact an E-Tuner. Lex@StratifiedAuto does an awesome job on these 2.3 DISI Turbo engines. Believe me, you will forget about any boost tune.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
The Lost Speed
Posts: 5
Joined: April 1st, 2013, 11:26 am

Re: CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by The Lost Speed »

mituc wrote: Although it's not something that is recommended, you can set the load targets to higher values that will never be achieved, or will be achieved only during winter, and play with the overboost protection limits (when the throttle close limits are hit the ECU will close the throttle and keep the boost under control). You will have to work the BCS DC table values up until you reach about the desired values, and lower the BCS DC compensation percent for negative compensation (default 20%, make it like 7%).
I still recommend leaving the load target corrections in place, at least for the positive compensation, just in case the car will run into a boost spike and the load will be too high.
Control the boost with the overboost limits is not a real dynamic boost tuning. My last car is a mazdaspeed 3 with GT2871R. Using another product for the engine management that was possible to control boost with only boost target and boost error compensation. The overboost limits are to protect the engine.
mituc wrote: Keep in mind that high boost means high air flow. That does not necessarily mean that the car will make proportionally more power. You can boost up to 19PSI at red line and run 3 degrees of advance and get a shitty power figure (and toast the exhaust valves in the process), or you can boost up to 16.5-17 and run 12-14 degrees of timing (depending on the gas you're running and a lot of other factors) and get significantly more power.
I know that
mituc wrote: However, if you decide to boost tune make sure you have:
- fuel pump internals;
- exhaust;
- a larger turbo than stock, at least a reworked K04 of not even larger;
- good cooling (larger intercooler, good coolant, heat shields in good shape);
- good lubrication (better engine/trans/diff oil);
- better engine support (engine mounts, at least the RMM CS inserts).
If you check my signature

- fuel pump internals;OK
- exhaust; partial upgrade
- TMIC upgrade
-Rear motor mount upgrade
CX-7 AWD 2.3T 2012 // CP-e HPF Pump //CP-e CAI // Samco TIH // Corksport TMIC // Custom 3'' Midpipe // Turbosmart dual port BOV //H&R coil drop // Sure RMM
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1324
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by mituc »

The Lost Speed wrote: Control the boost with the overboost limits is not a real dynamic boost tuning.
No, it definitely isn't, but since the Versatuner doesn't allow for pure boost tuning I was just saying how can this still be achieved. At some point my tune was relying on the overboost protection limits and injector duty cycle limit and it worked out quite well. Basically even now in warmer weather I'm relying on the boost limit above like 6400rpm. It's basically a boost limit but it's set with the target value in mind :)
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
EPTSpeed3
Posts: 17
Joined: February 20th, 2013, 8:30 pm

Re: CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by EPTSpeed3 »

Maybe one day we will have a choice to Boost Tune
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1324
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by mituc »

Boost alone does not equal power. Load and timing is a better choice in my opinion. Just think about this:
- it doesn't make much sense to boost up to like 21PSI on a 40C/100F day;
- you don't need to boost up to 21PSI on a 0C/32F day.
You can use load targets to keep in safe and play with timing to achieve consistent power figures across the entire temperature range.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
The Lost Speed
Posts: 5
Joined: April 1st, 2013, 11:26 am

Re: CX-7 tuning in boost dynamic target ?

Post by The Lost Speed »

mituc wrote:Boost alone does not equal power. Load and timing is a better choice in my opinion. Just think about this:
- it doesn't make much sense to boost up to like 21PSI on a 40C/100F day;
- you don't need to boost up to 21PSI on a 0C/32F day.
You can use load targets to keep in safe and play with timing to achieve consistent power figures across the entire temperature range.
In a dynamic boost tuning The boost value is not the same at each RPM and each throttle position. We have boost compensation by gear, boost error com pensation waste gate, WG Duty - IAT Comp, WG Duty - Baro. Comp, WG DC % ajustment .

It's more easier to tune if the engine management software can do that vs load targeting mode.

In boost tuning we can always change spark advance to increase Volumetric Efficiency at mid and end rpm curve.

I tuned speed 3 with over 400HP with the 2 method and it's take more time in load targeting way.
CX-7 AWD 2.3T 2012 // CP-e HPF Pump //CP-e CAI // Samco TIH // Corksport TMIC // Custom 3'' Midpipe // Turbosmart dual port BOV //H&R coil drop // Sure RMM
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