Closed loop timing table missing?

Tuning discussion for all second generation Mazda 2.3 MZR DISI Turbo powered vehicles

Closed loop timing table missing?

by Polish_Eagle » January 3rd, 2020, 9:18 am

My car is a Canadian 2011 Gen2 SPEED3.

I did some data logs today and noticed knock when on the highway cruising. I know part throttle knock doesn't really matter as the car is trying to maximize timing for best fuel economy and emissions. However, when I look at the log and compare the data points to the tune that's currently loaded, there's no table that correlates to the timing and load from the logs. If I set the tune in comparison to stock, and then mouse over the point that the log is referring to, the logged timing value matches the stock map timing - the knock retard.

Are there possibly missing timing tables that have not been exposed for the Gen2 SPEED3?
Attachments
timing-normal-v1.55.png
Timing normal
timing-normal-v1.55.png (53.96 KiB) Viewed 126 times
timing-closed-loop-max-v1.55.png
Timing closed loop max
timing-closed-loop-max-v1.55.png (57.08 KiB) Viewed 126 times
datalog-knock-timing-rpm-load-v1.55.png
Datalog
datalog-knock-timing-rpm-load-v1.55.png (273.36 KiB) Viewed 126 times
 
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Re: Closed loop timing table missing?

by mituc » January 4th, 2020, 3:02 am

That is because when in closed loop the ECU varies timing to maximize performance and also adapt for different fuel types. Because of this you may see timing values that are way off compared to the timing tables.
However, right after you flash a tune you will see that in those conditions timing is exactly there until it will start adapting.
Also this happens more on gen2 than on gen1/speed6/cx7.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
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2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
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Re: Closed loop timing table missing?

by Polish_Eagle » January 4th, 2020, 4:24 am

What's the point of the Max timing tables if the ECU doesn't honour it? I figured that the max tables were meant to be a hard limit, while the normal tables were the baseline that the ECU would start with to increase the timing to the Max values until knock is seen.
 
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Re: Closed loop timing table missing?

by mituc » January 5th, 2020, 8:06 pm

The timing will not go past the values in that table in its attempts to seek the ultimate efficiency. At least in theory. On both my 3MPS BK (speed3 gen1) and CX7 gen1 this is how it works. I mentioned the models because in the past there were model specific bugs, in case you've hit one. Post a log if you think you did...
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Build engine + WMI + GTX3071, ~476WHP @31-32PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine, intake and exhaust (YES!!), GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 320-ish BHP
VersaTuner guru
 
Posts: 878
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Closed loop timing table missing?

by Polish_Eagle » January 6th, 2020, 3:31 pm

Here's the log data for the picture that I posted. I definitely feel like something is either missing or not right as the timing doesn't follow what the tune says. I'm willing to work with a developer if they want to experiment with things or need more logs/info.
Attachments
Data log - 2020-01-03 12.31.04-formatted.csv
(7.63 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
 
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