Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Tuning discussion for all second generation Mazda 2.3 MZR DISI Turbo powered vehicles
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VoodooJef
Posts: 13
Joined: July 1st, 2017, 10:05 pm

Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by VoodooJef »

Hey everyone! I know a few folks from the mazdaspeed forums, so a hello to you all.

I``ll be tuning a fully built, big turbo Speed 3 on methanol here pretty soon. Been building and modding cars for 27 years, and had some fast ones along the way. The last car I tuned was and OBDI 300ZXTT, and tuning that in real time was pretty damn easy and intuitive. A very simple ECU. The Mazda seems a bit different, and though I`ve since been through three E-tunes and learned everything I could absorb, this is my first go with self tuning this car, and with this software.

I`ll start with this: (1) is there a "standard" BT base map to start from? (2) how intuitive is it to scale for aux fuel (methanol)? (3) are there some built in mafcal settings for common intakes?

Some deeper questions I have but don`t need an answer to right away:

Are some tables that are influenced by other tables able to interpolate their settings? (ie; if I adjust afr, will IDC setting or fuel pressure setting automatically adjust) and what are the primary tuning tables (ie; are we working with 4 or 5 fundamentals or are we maintaining every nickle and dime parameter along the way?

I`m sure a lot of it will unfold as I start using the software, but the more familiar I am with it, the more seamless the process. And FWIW, the goal is to dyno tune it in basically one session, be it one hour or three.
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1323
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by mituc »

A standard BT map would be one of the high load maps with the BCS DC base table (the requested WGDC) zeroed. This way you will force your turbo to build boost at the wastegate spring pressure, so you will be able to see how much WGDC is required to reach a certain air flow rate or boost.

Yes, if you will adjust the AFR targets the IDC (and maybe FRP, but not necessarily as that is stabilized using the electronically controlled spill valve) will be adjusted on the fly.

All tables are important, but once figured out the main ones you will keep updating will be the per gear load targets tables, ignition tables, maybe AFR, and BCS DC tables.

When you tune for methanol you will first have to use a standard MAF calibration, see how rich the AFRs go at the currently set target AFRs and then adjust the MAF cal (scale it down) until the AFRs will be around your set target for that RPM/load point.
Depending on the methanol nozzle you're using probably a good idea is to set the boost trigger value for meth around 8-12-14PSI and set for maximum meth duty cycle around 18-20PSI. There may be no point in triggering the meth spray before reaching or even exceeding the factory boost limits (14.5-14.7-15PSI), this way you will keep your meth tank full especially if you have a led foot like others on this forum.

Also it may be a better idea and significantly cheaper to tune on street in a lower gear for starters, say 3rd if you want to stay within or not too much above the legal speed limits, and then book one hour of dyno time if you want to go further. But street tuning is best because we're not talking about simulating road conditions, you're actually driving the car in those conditions.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
VoodooJef
Posts: 13
Joined: July 1st, 2017, 10:05 pm

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by VoodooJef »

Thanks Mituc. I`ve seen several of your posts on MSF, always great info. Here``````` is another, perhaps even more pertinent question: I was pretty happy with my previous tune, considering it was for the stock block. 424whp running enough methanol to feed 480. My goal is 465 on the forged motor, so only 36 more HP to tune for, and I`ll be installing a much better exhaust manifold with the new built, so getting there I suspect will not be a problem. Can I use my previous logs to determine a baseline for load, boost, and timing? Meaning can I use those numbers to set the new map to once the engine is broken in and tune from there?

And absolutely, I planned to get the first couple of revisions out of the way with street pulls then dial it in on the dyno.
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1323
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by mituc »

Don't use the previous logs, take new logs. If you have the same turbo, EBCS, and so on, then just load the previous tune and take a set of logs. It should be spot on. Then start it from there. This is what I did.

Once you will upgrade some flow parts (manifolds, exhaust, and so on) just let it flow and see where it lands. With a forged engine unless we aim past like 700-750 crank HP the limit is the flow rate of various components (fuel, turbo, exhaust, intake, and so on) and the limit of the sensors we use (MAF if the intake is relatively small for the target, MAP, and so on).
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
VoodooJef
Posts: 13
Joined: July 1st, 2017, 10:05 pm

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by VoodooJef »

therein lies the complication. There is no previous tune. I`ll be switching from AP to Versatune.
VoodooJef
Posts: 13
Joined: July 1st, 2017, 10:05 pm

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by VoodooJef »

^^^ scratch that. I`ll have an identical map to the last one I ran. You say I can just load that one and keep tuning from there?
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1323
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by mituc »

Yes, this is what I did and what I'd still do, I'd use the previous tune as the base tune for going further.
You can spend 2-3 days and import the tune values from the AP tune to Versatune, if you have access to ATR. If you don't then you'll have to start as I stated in my first response to you, but it's good you have an identical one though.
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
VoodooJef
Posts: 13
Joined: July 1st, 2017, 10:05 pm

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by VoodooJef »

That``s good news. It`ll be easier to dial in from where I was since the methanol scaling is already done. I can just introduce timing advance a tiny bit earlier and bring up the load target a couple of tenths and see where it gets me. I`ve got more than enough fuel and was only 35hp away from my goal at 26psi. Adding the exhaust manifold and forged motor I should be able to get there with relative ease.
mituc
VersaTuner guru
Posts: 1323
Joined: December 17th, 2011, 2:47 pm
Location: Iasi/Romania

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by mituc »

What intake manifold do you have? With a good flowing ex mani the limits may move in the front of the engine...
2008 Cosmic Blue Mazda 3MPS
Built engine + WMI + GTX3071 gen2, ~509BHP @34PSI
2008 Icy Blue Mazda CX7
Stock engine and exhaust (YES!!), JBR3" + GTX2867 gen2 + Autotech HPFP, self-tuned to 330-ish BHP
VoodooJef
Posts: 13
Joined: July 1st, 2017, 10:05 pm

Re: Hey Hey and a couple of questions

Post by VoodooJef »

That`s undecided at this point. The plan so far is the ST mani but there may be a change to that.
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