New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Tuning discussion for all first generation Mazda RX-8 (2004-2008)
Rattlehead
Posts: 1
Joined: October 2nd, 2021, 5:50 pm

New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by Rattlehead »

Finally got Full version.
My car: 04 rx8 6port 6 speed

mods: AEM intake, Hks exhaust, High flow cat(have midpipe availble also,
Rx8 performance fan mod, Sohn adapter, pulleys, mishimoto rad (stock: coils revC, headers)

Goals Car is my daily, but also going to be tracking it (exp is beginner),
looking to not have the car be so rich, and to give it a much more smooth powerband.
better oil injection at the top range...etc

First, do one of the provided tunes that are on versatuner fit with what Ive got/ going for?
the 6port Stage1 Stock comes to mind, but my cars not completely stock

Second, Does anyone have a map that fits well, thad be awesome.

Third if the above not possible, also looking for possible tuner in bay area California.

Any tips, advice or lesson welcome
thanks for looking
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wcs
Posts: 61
Joined: May 12th, 2021, 12:46 am

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by wcs »

That Stage 1 will work for you.
The fuel tables in the higher RPM's have reduced AFR targets compared to stock.
The OMP tables have a mild increase in injection rate.

The AEM Intake IMO is the modification that you have which can effect the tune the most (good or bad).
Tuners will start by scaling the Maf and trying to get the LTFT as near Zero as possible (+- 3% is typically acceptable and not worth chasing)
The ECU will learn and adjust the LTFT within a range of +- 25%
It's not unusual to see trims around +-10% on a perfectly running car but once you start getting close to the 20 area there is likely something something going on (IMO).

You can compare the Stage 1 tune to the Stock tune if you would like to see the changes for yourself.


1) Load (EDIT) the Stage 1 Tune
2) In the upper left corner make sure the option "From stock Tune" is selected
3) Tables that have been modified from stock will show as a bold font.
4) Open the table and let the mouse hover over any of the Bold Font values and a tool tip will appear displaying the Stock value.
VT_CompareTune.jpg
VT_CompareTune.jpg (242.79 KiB) Viewed 6190 times
Walle
Posts: 51
Joined: August 29th, 2021, 7:27 pm

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by Walle »

the bad thing is that he has both intake mods (MAF scaling) and engine breathing mods (VE).

I would try and chase LTF by MAF and VE by short therm by following aproach.

load a tune and drive for a week.

log Rev, Calculated load, Short trim, Long trim for half an hour. try to "hit" 1000 to 5000 rpm 0 to 60% load. create a "raw" VE correction table (only short therm).

Apply long term to MAF.

I disagree of just scaling the maf in chase of the LTF. and also LTF needs to be monitored as it is used in open loop as well. and than an afr might become to lean (or unnececeraly rich) as LTF is created mostly by the part we drive most often in. I believe VE needs correction also. (for me some are adjusted more than 30% but I have ported engine)
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wcs
Posts: 61
Joined: May 12th, 2021, 12:46 am

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by wcs »

@Walle
Agreed,
I am totally onboard with the LTFT effecting open loop and its a good point you make, you really don't want for example -13% LTFT going into open loop on a fuel map that has considerably leaner AFR targets.
I should have pointed this out in my first post.
For clarity I also didn't mean to imply Maf scaling was they only thing that should be performed as part of the tuning process my bad for my brevity.

Switching gears a bit:
I'm not sure that Stage 1 map ok for track use.
AFR's in the mid to high 12's might be not so good for those long straights under load? (thoughts?)

I'm boosted and don't track my car so for me High Load and High RPM only occur in very short bursts with very rich AFR's.

Wow ok so that all said I hope we aren't killing the OP in information, I not sure he wanted a lesson in tuning.

@rattlehead
I don't know any tuners in the California Bay Area but I'm sure there must be some that would work on the RX8.
You can also look in to getting Jeff to do it remotely (MazdaManiac), I believe he is still in Arizona.
On the RX8club there is are a lot of tuning threads that may help you get started if you decide to learn to do it yourself.

Welcome to the party

:welcome :wave :wave
Walle
Posts: 51
Joined: August 29th, 2021, 7:27 pm

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by Walle »

my intention was only to add more data, not to correct you :)

for NA imho, 13.2 is a safe target for street use, for race I would use 12.8 at redline and at 13.2 at 5k (horizontal interpolate in between).

also one can reference to this doc. "Engine Vitals: Lambda" (I don't know how credible it is so don't shoot me)
http://www.rx8help.com/uploads/7/3/4/7/ ... rmazda.pdf

Code: Select all

My AFR target looks like this for high load.
RPM		500	750	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6500	7000	7500	8000	8500	9000
Target AFR	13.21	13.21	13.21	13.21	13.21	13.15	13.15	13.15	13.15	13.09	13.09	13.09	13.09	13.03	13.03	13.03	13.03	12.98	12.98
for any map targets is easy to make the tables for. what is dificult for renesis imho is the VE table and maf scaling if intake is modified.
for my engine I needed to increase the VE significantly. the most "flowing" awailable tune was reading 14.5 to 13.5 depending where in rpm range. at 7k it gets really lean.

my VE for high load:

Code: Select all

RPM			500	750	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6500	7000	7500	8000	8500
my VE			1.10	1.10	1.09	1.00	1.05	1.02	0.93	0.95	1.23	1.09	1.03	1.09	0.97	1.07	1.07	1.02	0.97	0.97
oem VE			0.99	0.99	0.96	0.94	0.91	0.91	0.91	0.94	0.98	0.96	0.92	0.92	0.89	0.92	0.93	0.93	0.89	0.89
Increase over OEM	11%	11%	14%	6%	15%	12%	2%	1%	26%	14%	12%	18%	9%	16%	15%	10%	9%	9%

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wcs
Posts: 61
Joined: May 12th, 2021, 12:46 am

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by wcs »

@Walle
Thanks for the link, that was great read.
Lots of good information in there ...

Those AFR's I imagine would only be safe for a car without a catalytic convertor.
As silly as it sounds I know guys that will occasionally track their car (lap day events etc) with a catalytic.

I don't know if the cat would tolerate those AFR's for long.
Thoughts?
Walle
Posts: 51
Joined: August 29th, 2021, 7:27 pm

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by Walle »

@WCS,

the lower the afr is the harder it is for the cat to work. the least work it has to do is at stoich, or on higher than stoich. I would say these are perfectly safe for the cat. :burnrubber but yes mine is decat
Capt.Tightpants
Posts: 3
Joined: January 15th, 2021, 11:49 am

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by Capt.Tightpants »

I'm in the same boat, new to tuning and trying to figure all this out. I appreciate the step by step instructions above and I'm going ahead and give it a shot.

However, I am in Arizona. Would someone kindly direct me to this MazdaManiac you speak of? He's banned on rx8club.
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wcs
Posts: 61
Joined: May 12th, 2021, 12:46 am

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by wcs »

It's been years since I've spoken to Jeff (Mazda Maniac)
He's a smart guy.
I would try reaching him via his website at https://mazdamaniac.com/

Cheers
Walle
Posts: 51
Joined: August 29th, 2021, 7:27 pm

Re: New to Tuning-Looking for a Tune

Post by Walle »

wcs wrote: October 24th, 2021, 11:58 pm ....(Mazda Maniac)
He's a smart guy.
.....
There's a reason for him being banned. He has pushed so many misinformation around on how to do something arguing that he has tested his hypothesis (lying), and than he was proven wrong so many times. (dwell table being one of many, other is load and what happens when car reaches a load/rpm that is beyond the map)

I don't know how is he in professional environment (doing his job that he is payed for) or personally, but from what he wrote on US rx8 forum, I would not give him a sheep to watch let alone tune my car.

Also, I would highly advice against using Access Port by any means!

There are remote tuners that can help you... RRP being one of few working on RX8,
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