Deldran's VT adventure

VersaTuner for Mazdaspeed6, Mazda 6 MPS, Mazdaspeed3, Mazda 3 MPS, CX7
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

Steve @ VersaTune wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is for a stock K04 fed engine, right? What other mods?

I usually leave the CL/OL thresholds alone. If you have a reason to touch those tables, that's up to you.

Push Load Limit Spark Retard up so it won't get triggered. Use a value you will never hit like 3.

Overboost Throttle Reduction is too close to Overboost Fuel cut. It won't have time to lower boost with the throttle before it hits the fuel cut. Increase the fuel cut table or lower the throttle table so there's at least a 5 kPa spread.

I don't see any reason to ever rev above 6500 with a K04. You have the rev limiter at 7500.

You changed the fuel pressure limit to 12.4 MPa, but did not increase any fuel pressure target cell above 11.5

I would ask for a little more load at 2500 and 3000. If you wait till 4000 to request full load, you have no torque curve since torque starts dropping at 5500 and drops like a brick at 6000.
Your per-gear low bat load limits are much higher than your APP Requested Load and will never be hit.

You will probably overshoot your load targets at lower rpm due to the aggressive DBW throttle map.

Hope this helps,

Steve
Yes this is a k04 powered car. It's 11:1 compression forged motor. BSD delete, catless downpipe, Cobb sri, cs tip, and that pretty much it for power mods

I set the rev limiter to 7500 because I do a lot of autocross and 9 time out of 10 its not worth shifting to 3rd so we rev out to 7500 instead. Yes its way out of its range at that point, but with slightly aggressive timing up top you can keep power resonable there.

What tables are you referring to for the the ol\cl thresholds. Usually I like to keep things like that not to much above what I am targeting for safteys sake. I would much rather eat the dashboard from some sort of cut over blowing the motor.

That was my bad on the gear tables. It said limit so I interpreted that as, if it hits this it will do some form of cut to get back down to the limit. So I set it slightly higher than the APP table so I would always try and achieve that target.

I love the way the throttle feels those where like the only tables that directly translated, I like a linier throttle which is why you see it that way in the app tables.

If I do overshoot load targets I will have to fix that another way. Remember I am an avid autocross competitor throttle response is a huge deal for me
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Steve @ VersaTune
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Joined: March 29th, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Steve @ VersaTune »

CL/OL Thresholds are the values that when exceeded, the ECU goes into open loop.

The per gear limits are on the requested side, not on the operating side. Meaning that they limit the requested load, not the actual operating load. Operating load is limited in the Operating Load Limit table in the absolute limits section. The per-gear req load limit tables are so that you can tune your max requested load on a per-gear basis. More useful for traction limited FWD than AWD.
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

Steve @ VersaTune wrote:CL/OL Thresholds are the values that when exceeded, the ECU goes into open loop.

The per gear limits are on the requested side, not on the operating side. Meaning that they limit the requested load, not the actual operating load. Operating load is limited in the Operating Load Limit table in the absolute limits section. The per-gear req load limit tables are so that you can tune your max requested load on a per-gear basis. More useful for traction limited FWD than AWD.
Interesting, it's pretty common practice to set the transition to open loop to between 1.0 and 1.2 load.
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

Steve @ VersaTune wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is for a stock K04 fed engine, right? What other mods?

I usually leave the CL/OL thresholds alone. If you have a reason to touch those tables, that's up to you.

Push Load Limit Spark Retard up so it won't get triggered. Use a value you will never hit like 3.

Overboost Throttle Reduction is too close to Overboost Fuel cut. It won't have time to lower boost with the throttle before it hits the fuel cut. Increase the fuel cut table or lower the throttle table so there's at least a 5 kPa spread.

I don't see any reason to ever rev above 6500 with a K04. You have the rev limiter at 7500.

You changed the fuel pressure limit to 12.4 MPa, but did not increase any fuel pressure target cell above 11.5

I would ask for a little more load at 2500 and 3000. If you wait till 4000 to request full load, you have no torque curve since torque starts dropping at 5500 and drops like a brick at 6000.
Your per-gear low bat load limits are much higher than your APP Requested Load and will never be hit.

You will probably overshoot your load targets at lower rpm due to the aggressive DBW throttle map.

Hope this helps,

Steve
So i went over the tune, and made some changes based on your suggestion. After looking at the logs from last night, it seems i was hitting the overload spark retard above about 4500rpm. which made some very weird feeling in the logs. I also set the gear tables equal to the app tables. I also increased load down low. it did feel very sluggish except for at 4k. Shift studder is gone though which is well worth the switch imho. Little scared to try mega spool, dont need a grenaded clutch or TC lol.

If you want take a look.

Thanks for all the help. I think tomorrow I am going to work on a document to help people translate tables from ATR to Versatune. Its fairly straight forward, only a few tables dont line up perfectly

Updated Tune
https://www.dropbox.com/s/akazjvrfb02em ... vtune?dl=0

Log
https://www.dropbox.com/s/23lozokjt2lpeid/log1.csv?dl=0
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Steve @ VersaTune
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Posts: 1157
Joined: March 29th, 2010, 12:58 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Steve @ VersaTune »

I'll take a look at your latest tune and logs.

I think a lot of people would find the cross reference very helpful. Let me know if you need any more detail on what specific tables are for,
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

Steve @ VersaTune wrote:I'll take a look at your latest tune and logs.

I think a lot of people would find the cross reference very helpful. Let me know if you need any more detail on what specific tables are for,
I'm gonna convert my e85 map. I was gonna wait but with 93 a dollar more than 87 in my area, its cheaper to daily in the e tune
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

It seems i have ran into something odd.

While moving my E85 map over to VT, specific fuel gravity is not coming out quite right. In VT it list fuel gravity in kg/l in ATR its kg/m^3, but it seems the numbers are the same. because when i convert .74 kg/m^3 it comes out to .0074 kg/l
but both VT and ATR list gravity for base unleaded maps as .74 in there respective unit of measure.
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Steve @ VersaTune
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Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Steve @ VersaTune »

Water has a density of 1.00 kg per liter by definition. Gasoline is slightly less dense than gasoline.

From Wikipedia:
The density of gasoline ranges from 0.71–0.77 kg/L (719.7 kg/m3 ; 0.026 lb/in3; 6.073 lb/US gal; 7.29 lb/imp gal),

It would be some very light gasoline if it had a density of .0074kg per liter. ATR is using the wrong units.
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

Steve @ VersaTune wrote:Water has a density of 1.00 kg per liter by definition. Gasoline is slightly less dense than gasoline.

From Wikipedia:
The density of gasoline ranges from 0.71–0.77 kg/L (719.7 kg/m3 ; 0.026 lb/in3; 6.073 lb/US gal; 7.29 lb/imp gal),

It would be some very light gasoline if it had a density of .0074kg per liter. ATR is using the wrong units.
I figured one or the other was using the wrong unit, just didn't know which one.

Also I have ran across a bug.

If I close a tune edit, switch the units of measure from standard to metric, or vise versa, then try and edit a tune, they just say loading and never allows me to edit a tune. If you close versatune down all the way then it does.

Nothing major just an annoyance
Deldran
Posts: 25
Joined: November 24th, 2014, 1:47 pm

Re: Deldran's VT adventure

Post by Deldran »

Out of curiosity, why is there no "boost" parameter to watch in the dashbard. The closest thing is intake manifold absolute pressure, but it would be nice to see just boost, it could help find vacuum leaks and boost leaks.
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