Deldran's VT adventure

[Deldran]

Ok, so it seems i am SOL on getting my old map opened up so im starting from stratch.

My 06 MS6 has a cobb SRI, CS TIP, forged motor at 11:1 compression. 3" catless downpipe, autotech internals.

I am going to start with the us93 eu 98 with downpipe map.

Im trying to figured out spark timing for this, Just want to start off save, get a good maf cal, then proceed with increasing timing and load targets.

I have some questions on the timing tables. What exactly is abnormal operation? Would this be like when KR is detected aka the knocking tables in ATR.
I assume overload is the table it will look to when it goes above load targets?
Could you give a brief overview on the KR tables and what exatcly there function is?

Lots more to ask but this should be a start.

Thanks

[Steve @ VersaTune]

As far as I can tell, abnormal tables are fault mode aka limp home mode. They should not be referenced by the ECU under normal circumstances.

Overload tables can be activated based on exceeding the load limit set in Load Limit Force Spark Retard in the Absolute Limits section. Some CX-7 OEM calibrations use the Overload tables by default. It could be a low octane calibration option.

I push the values in Load Limit Force Spark Retard way above whatever I plan to see in actual operation.

Some of the KR tables are clear as to what hey do. Some are not.

If you click on the table name above the table display it gives a brief description of the table and it's function.

What tables do you have questions about?

[Deldran]

I just found the tunning guide gona read through that before asking much more.

What is the maximum load you are seeing on K04's i doubt much over 2.

What timing tables should i be looking at to make sure it doesnt get pushed to far

[Steve @ VersaTune]

The Tuning Guide is admittedly generic. It's been on my to-do list to update forever, but adding tables and cool custom code always seems to take precedence.

I hit 2.2 load at lower RPMs on my Gen2. The stock K04 runs out of breath at around 240 g/s unless you have a really free flowing intake and exhaust. Even then, there's not much more room.
The stock HPFP will lose pressure over 1.9-2.0 load. Upgraded HPFPs start to have issues around 2.8 load from what I've seen. Some are better than others.

Set Closed Loop Base Timing Normal Extended and Closed Loop Base Timing Normal Overload Extended tables for your closed loop timing. In theory, you shouldn't hit the overload table, but make it the same as the normal table just in case.

Set Closed Loop Max Ignition Timing Extended too. This is what the ECU slowly works toward during normal cruising when there is no knock.

Set Open Loop Base Timing Normal Extended and Open Loop Base Timing Normal Overload Extended for your open loop timing. Again, you shouldn't hit the overload table, but make it the same as the normal table just in case.

Set Open Loop Max Ignition Timing Extended so that it's higher than the other OL tables or else you won't hit the timing you expect.

Enjoy the 8000 RPM x 4.0 Load tables on Gen1

[Deldran]

Thanks,

So i am looking at the OL extended table, on the us93 eu 98 with downpipe tune.
Why do you think these timing values are to high for 11:1 compression. I cant open and see my old AP tune for the 6, but i do remember for my gen 1 ms3 with stock compression running was running in double digits 5k and up

Is there a reason why it tapers back down after 5500 RPM, its my understanding as RPM increases as does the amount of timing to hit MBT, just curious as to why its decreasing after 5500 rpm

[Steve @ VersaTune]

The stock K04 blows hot air above 5500 and at higher loads. It's totally out of it's efficiency range.

VT OTS tunes tend to be on the conservative side. I'll give up some power to not zoom zoom boom anyone.

If you want to try those values and see if you get knock, go ahead. Just log and back off if you see knock. You can set an audible alert for any PID in the Dashboard. Set an alert for KR > 1.0 and slowly work your way up to full boost. Back off if you hear the alert. You can test the alert using the APP PID with the engine off and key on just to get a feel for how it works.

[mituc]

11:1 compression and factory turbo may not play well together on this engine with pump gas. I'd rather start using a 95octane base map unless you're spraying meth even through a DO5 nozzle just for cooling and slight octane increase without affecting fueling above the margin it needs table changes.

[Deldran]

Yes pump gas is kinda meh, it does great with e85 though. Once I get the 93 map figured out I will get an e85 tune running. This cars main purpose is dd and autocross so massive amounts of power is not my main concern.

So why are the it's vt tunes so high with timing in the 4000 to 4500 range. That seems a bit high even for stock compression.

I thought I posted something last night but it didn't go. Yes the k04 is a hair dryer above 5500 rpm, but I have found if you are mildly agresive with timing past 5500 you can keep power from failing off so hard. As I do alot of autocross I spend a lot of time above 5500 rpm

[Steve @ VersaTune]

Looking at the OTS Mazdaspeed6 tunes, they have stock timing. Some are three years old. We've learned a lot since then. I'll work on updating them, but It's getting hard to find a stock MS6 to test with. I'll put that on the to-do list

Edit: Actually, I think I know what happened. When we extended the timing tables, the modified standard size timing tables may have been left behind. I will investigate that.

[Deldran]

Ok so i got my old AP map opened up. Copy and paste not so much. VT has alot more between 1.00 and 2.00 load.

It would be awesome if you could interpolate vertically and horizontally like you can in ATR. just saying